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Discussion in 'Swansea City' started by Bovi, 2 Nov 2016.
Sorry but it needs saying
The blokes clueless, take Jenkins and the Yanks with him at the same time
After 3 games ? No
Fair enough butty
I'm going to say yes. He looked completely lost on Monday
It does need expressing if only to send a message about fans' strength of feeling.
Normally we would not expect a manager to be an instant hit but would expect a bit of 'new manager bounce' - it hasn't been there.
A big concern for me is his rhetoric is almost identical to Monk's when things went pear shaped for him.
Has he done anything which suggests he is capable of doing anything other than he's doing now?
Let's say we sack our second manager of the season after three games, or after six games if we give him a few more to turn it around, how many managers are going to want to come here after two managers have been sacked in less than half a season?
I can't imagine any top candidates would want to come here. We would be looking at candidates trying to revive their managerial careers or first time managers who would be willing to take a risk that this is the right club for them. But essentially if we wanted Roy Hodgson (my preferred choice when we sacked Guidolin), or Big Sam, I think they would say no thanks and stay out of work.
For me, I don't see firing Bradley as a positive move unless we can land Hodgson or Big Sam. They have experience in this league and a proven record at keeping teams in it. But even managers with that resume don't come with any guarantee because they would still need backing in January to get reinforcements, just like bradley needs because this squad is arguably not good enough to stay in this division.
So considering the general belief that this squad isn't good enough without reinforcements, then in someways it's tough to judge Bradley this early because he's stuck with a substandard squad that most managers would struggle to do much better with. Unless of course the general belief is that this squad is good enough, then at that point Bradley has failed and is doing a bad job. But I subscribe more to the former than the latter, and as such, I lean towards giving him more time.
My question is, is he to blame or is it the players who are clearly giving no fight for him, the fans, the club?
While watching Monday night I couldn't help but wonder how Joe Allen felt taking us (the team he supports) apart so easily and seeing and feeling the shambolic effort of the players, it must have been an awful feeling.
Biggest concern is that he isn't playing or strongest team. Two rookies at the back is a bad idea and it showed early on on Monday. Starting Ki, particularly in the position he played, is a joke. How he starts ahead of Cork let alone Britton is beyond me. He didn't look awful on Monday but I got the feeling that Stoke were allowing him and Taylor to get posession because they knew how ineffective they both were, allowing them to concentrate their efforts on taking Barrow and Siggy out of the game. For me Britton must start in every game he is available to play. Monk thought he could do without him, Guido did by the end and Bradley is again thinking the same thing. Curtis played him and our games under Curtis were, undoubtedly, the most succesful period in the past sorry 15 months, and that was down in no small part to Britton - Curtis knows, and perhaps Bobby needs to start listening to him again. When Bradley realises that chopping and changing every damn game isn't the best way forward, we may have some chance of picking some points. Either way, getting rid of him now would make us an absolute joke of a club.
I'd prefer this than to bring Fede back in. Wanker should be back looking for a job as a gaucho. We can't determine on two showings for Mawson as he had a good game against Watford but not against Stoke. After his OG it is understandable not to bounce back sufficiently and that comes with both age and experience and can't be shortchanged. We simply are a sub-standard squad and there's no getting around that and even Mawson was I presume largely brought in for home grown issues and not just because Ash had gone - nothing HJ and the owners do appears to be entirely team focused.
Not just that but had this team been fighting this battle last season we'd have had more chance as this season each and every squad apart from us used the extra TV money to strengthen. We didn't. Now we're face up gasping for breath, dying grimly for want of a decent player or two that could make the difference. We can make this work but not without a rethink on the owner's part in January.
I suspect the chopping and changing is down to him not knowing his best eleven and he's trying to work that out, which is understandable for a manager thrown in at the deep end. He does need to learn quickly and hopefully his best eleven is becoming clearer.
As for two inexperienced centre backs, did Amat and Fernandez really perform that well to deserve retaining their starting position on the team? Not really. I can't blame Bradley for trying the two inexperienced lads because I think at some point before Guido was fired some of us suggested trying one of them (or both of them) in the starting line up. So far Mawson has shown some promise, but also that inexperience. Hoorn has done some good, some not so. Problem is both look like championship defenders, and to be honest, there were enough times when Amat and Fernandez didn't look significantly better. So Bradley is stuck with the CBs he has until January and has to get by, and hopefully in January they address the need at the back in the transfer market.
Too soon he needs a reasonable amount of time and I don't agree with all this anti American nonsense. At the moment Bradley is probably taking advice on the players from Curtis but I hope he quickly makes up his own mind on their qualities. It's only the away games I see on TV because I'm at the Liberty for the home games. I didn't think that lack of effort by the players was the problem on Monday night it was something that some of us have been cracking on about for a long time. We lacked a strong defensive ball winning midfielder. None of the three who played Monday fall into this category. Ki is better suited to a central midfield role whilst it has to be either Fer or Gylfi for attacking midfield. Leaving aside Leon if there is no one at the club who can be the defensive midfielder this has to be our no one priority in January..On the subject of midfielders according to the press Chelsea may be willing to loan Fabrigas in January and even pay some of his salary. I hope the powers that be have taken note of this.
but it's how he has mis managed/mis selected that squad that people want him out. You can only play the hand you're dealt but you can play it well or play it crap.
Flip side of that argument is if we had finished 1-1 against Stoke, or gone on to beat them, Bradley's selections and changes would have been praised not criticised. It's a fine balance. If he makes no changes from Guidolin and loses, he sucks. If he makes changes from Guidolin and loses, he sucks. If things go wrong he's damned either way, but if he makes changes and does well he's praised.
The problem here is that results haven't gone our way and performances haven't got better. So he's blind to be criticised, but calling for his head three games in is not the right forwards imo.
we didn't simple - and maybe you were the one other person with BB who thought the team he selected could get a point even let alone win. KI and Fer shows ignorance of tactics/skill/Premier league/ Stoke - maybe 1 or all
Amat and VdHoorn were shaping up nicely, considering they were a new partnership.
Bradley replaced that with Fernandez & Amat and reintroduced Taylor which we know hasn't worked.
VdHoorn & Mawson are too much alike, neither familiar with the PL. But both cost money so I can't see us buying in unless Amat says enough is enough and leaves.
For some years we have mostly recognised there glaring problems with our defence
1) no commanding figure in front of the back line
2) no commanding figure at left back
3) no adequate replacement for Rangel who, his unexpected sub appearance on Monday aside, is still our most accomplished defender at the age of 34.
He should be given some more games to see if he can respond to what has happened so far. If we sack him now, which I'm sure the Yanks never would because of adverse reaction in the USA, we'd look like idiots. Or at least even more idiotic than we are anyway.
In any event, what decent manager would want to put his reputation on the line given our present position? It's the same with bringing in decent players. Anyone with any quality and half a brain cell wouldn't want to come to a club that's already a relegation favourite and in turmoil from top to bottom.
I'm beginning to believe that the Yanks don't mind if we are relegated. They'll trouser most of the minimum £100 million we get even if we go down and hold a fire sale of players to recoup the rest before flogging the club for what they can get. And we can all thank Jenkins, Dineen, Morgan and the rest of the cheating flowers for ruining OUR club if it happens.
I really hope the Trust grows some balls and takes legal action in the context of minority shareholding protection in the hope we can accumulate the money we will need to try and rise again. I doubt it will be enough for us ever to see the Premier League again but it might save us from sliding into total oblivion. Stark choices, eh? I hope the fans able to attend against Man Utd will let Jenkins know about their displeasure in no uncertain terms. As the game is against United, at least any protest will receive worldwide exposure.
Before any talk of Bradley needing to leave we need to figure out what's the problem. Many people say the team isn't good enough - so which is it? The manager or the players?
The team is good enough to be in the league and competing. A couple positions could use strengthening; both fullback positions, a proper CDM to replace Leon and a consistent winger are what is required to really push this team forward. That is a lot of positions that need work but the spine of the team is decent; the problem in my opinion is that Bob hasn't figured out quickly enough who that spine is.
Fabianski is an excellent shot stopper; he was phenomenal in his first year with Garcia as his coach but now we have Roberts. He's seemed to have lost confidence in his ability under him and it's showing. He doesn't challenge for the aerial ball nearly as much as he used to nor does he distribute the ball well. He wasn't great at it with Garcia but he's been atrocious with it under Roberts. I almost always see the ball coming back at us after a Fabianski throw or clearance so there is definite work needed to improve that area of his game. Otherwise a solid #1.
Playing Mawson & VdH was bold and it worked out well vs Watford but as most of knew, that wouldn't be the best way forward. We've got a vastly experienced Fede who I personally don't want near the team but his experience is valuable and shouldn't be ignored. Amat is also a player with decent experience at this level with good leadership and has learnt from Williams the past 3 years. Whatever you think of Ash now, he had a profound effect on the team around him and his leadership is greatly missed right now. Of our 4 CB's right now Amat is the one who comes near enough to be that replacement; he's vocal, he's respected for the time he's been here and his quality. For me, he is a must starter and pair him with either VdH or Mawson for the time being. Those two are new, young and want to learn; that is where they will respect Amat's calls and his organization. Amat can be our anchor and Mawson or VdH are willing to listen to him; I don't see that with Fede as I feel like he wants to be the one to call the shots.
In the midfield we have Cork, Leon, Ki, or Fer to choose from in the DM spots. It's not exactly inspiring is it; however there are good pairings there, the key is to put them together. Cork & Fer work well together as does Leon & Ki. It all depends on the opponent as the first pair are good against teams like Watford, WBA & Stoke. The second pair is good against teams who will try to play us off the park like Arsenal & Man City. When I look at those four players, Cork is a must starter. Not because he's the best player but in the DM spots, he's the best we've got right now. I love Leon but his legs are wearing out and he's lost a bit of that zip that made him so fantastic. Cork still has his legs and runs his ass off harrying opponents in the middle of the park - something neither Ki or Fer would do. Either Cork or Leon has to start partnered with either Ki or Fer - we don't have the experienced defence yet to cope with having Ki & Fer partnered together.
Obviously Sigurdsson is the #10. We all know about him; he can fade out of games when crowded out but that's more to the wingers not being able to create the width than it is him being a poor player.
Up top we finally have two quality strikers. Llorente is getting on and he's slower than a snail but his hold up play & layoffs are near or on par with Bony. Borja offers a different threat in a quality goal poacher so the quality up top is sufficient; we just need some better service.
So to sum it up, our spine is good enough to stay up this season; we just need to be playing with that spine or it's liable to break like it did vs Stoke. I will give Bob 3 more games to see his lineups and if they are still clueless like the Stoke one then I will probably put my vote to a yes but for now it's a no. He's trying to find the best team and while he should have done so by now I'm willing to give more time. Finally I would like to point out that his formations and team selection against Arsenal & Watford were different and they worked. We all thought we were going to be drubbed 5-0 when our False-9 formation was announced vs Arsenal but we almost got something from that game. Give him time guys.
Last season this group of players - excluding Ash, Taylor, Sig and Fab - went to Upton Park and gave West Ham a shock defeat. Quite resoundingly too. To say the players are not good enough does not make sense - the only net loss from the West Ham team is Ayew and I would expect that Borja would be an acceptable replacement. Right now the players we have are not being used to our advantage. BB needs to get smart and quick. I hate on the job training for managers.
As you say, we didn't beat them or get a point, hence the frustration and criticism of Bradley. My point was very simple, if we had beat them or got a point, Bradley may have received praise for the changes he made to team. It's a fine line managers walk. They make changes and they do well, they're praised. They make changes and fail, they're idiots.
Did I agree with his team selection? Not really, but he's the manager and he picks the players - not me. I have my opinion on what the team should look like, but I am not in attendance at training, I don't spend vast amounts of time breaking down film of the previous game and analysing players every move. I simply watch the game and base any opinions on that. People on this board do the same when they go on the match threads and pick their preferred eleven. How many of us would have dropped Borja? I don't think many would. How about Britton? Again, I don't think many would. However, Bradley saw something different to us. He decided to make a change in midfield and up front. Was it based on something he saw in training? Did he see something on the film from a previous game that made him think those changes would make us better? There's lots of reasons why a manager may change his team, and while you may disagree with them, it doesn't necessarily make them a bad manager for making them.
Agreed Mike; I think there was a lot wrong with his selection vs Stoke. Kingsley playing for the U23's with Taylor starting is mind blowing; having two attack minded players who are known to be very defensively suspect playing in the defensive midfielders roles is another glaring mistake. I said earlier his formations against Arsenal & Watford were interesting and they worked. This one however, he got horribly wrong and he needs to right that Sunday or the "out" crowd will be louder than ever already.